Joe DiMaggio

Should Luis Tiant be in the baseball hall of fame?

Did anyone see the special on ESPN? Is anyone old enough to remember him pitch. I looked up his career stats and he is clearly the best pitcher not to be in the hall of fame. In fact Jim Bunning who is in the hall of fame has pretty much the same won-loss and ERA as Tiant. I think he should be voted in by the veterans committee. Tiant has over 180 complete games in 18 years.

Public Comments

1. He really got shuffled aside over the years. I believe so, but he may be that generations Mel Harder and not make the HOF.
2. 229 wins, 3.30 Era. 2416 Ks I would say he deserves to be in.
3. Did not see the ESPN show, although I did see Tiant being interviewed in the booth during a recent telecast, must have been during the Yankees/Red Sox series I think. I've followed baseball since I was a kid in the late 60s and remember Tiant very well. We used to mess around trying to duplicate his motion, which was unlike anything we'd ever seen. I had him down pretty well, lol. He was a big part of what made the '75 World Series so great. He was about a month short of his 35th birthday during that series, and he beat the Reds twice, including a shutout in game one. By the time the Reds saw him a 3rd time, the jig was up. Bill James had a chapter on Tiant (comparing him with Catfish Hunter) in his "Whatever Happened to the HOF?" book... Tiant's career (229-172) was pretty similar to Catfish Hunter's (224-166). Tiant threw 49 shutouts, Hunter threw 42 shutouts. Tiant ended with 2,416 Ks, Hunter 2,012 Ks Tiant's winning percentage was 48 points better than the teams he played on (taking their W/L percentages when Tiant wasn't on the mound). Hunter met 42% of HOF standards, Tiant met 41%. The most vivid image of Tiant is the Luis Tiant of 1975, when he battled the Big Red Machine with more guile than goods. Tiant may have damaged his chances by hanging on at the end of his career, bouncing ineffectively around the league. He might have been better off to quit early, as Hunter and Don Drysdale did. Hunter won 20 games five times, but Tiant won 20 games 4x, which is a good total even for a Hall of Famer. There are not a lot of pitchers with four 20-win seasons since WWII who aren't in the HOF. Hunter won as many as 25 games, but Tiant's 1968 season (21-9 264 Ks, 9 Shutouts and a 1.60 ERA) wasn't too shabby. Granted, that was the "year of the pitcher", but not many pitchers put up numbers like that (Tiant played for the Indians at the time). In 1988, Tiant, Jim Bunning and Mickey Lolich were probably the best pitchers on the ballot. This was Luis' first year on the ballot. Name Votes PCT Stargell, Willie35282.4% Bunning, Jim31774.2% (just missed, elected in 1996 by Vet Committee) Oliva, Tony20247.3% Cepeda, Orlando19946.6% Maris, Roger18443.1% Kuenn, Harvey16839.3% Mazeroski, Bill14333.5% TIANT, Luis13230.9% Wills, Maury12729.7% Boyer, Ken10925.5% Lolich, Mickey10925.5% Santo, Ron10825.3% Minoso, Minnie9021.1% After his first year on the ballot, his support dropped Year Votes PCT 1988 132 30.9% 1989 47 10.5% 1990 42 9.5% 1991 32 7.2% 1992 50 11.6% 1993 62 14.7% 1994 42 9.2% 1995 45 9.8% 1996 64 13.6% 1997 53 11.2% 1998 62 13.1% 1999 53 10.7% 2000 86 17.2% 2001 63 12.2% 2002 85 18% After 1988, Tiant just got buried when guys like Gaylord Perry, Ferguson Jenkins, Jim Palmer and Tom Seaver came on to the ballot. Tiant's W/L record, ranked by Fibonacci Win points, is better than the W/L records of 9 HOF starting pitchers (as of 1994 when that edition of the book came out). Tiant should probably be in the HOF. However, it's debatable whether he's the best starting pitcher who's not in the HOF... Jim Kaat and Tommy John both have good arguments along those lines as well. Tiant was well-liked, although writers didn't really connect with him the way they did with some other great pitchers of that time like Hunter, Drysdale or Gaylord Perry. HOF voting does not reflect any clear racial biases, so I wouldn't say that race or culture had anything to do with Tiant's lack of support. I had to look up the date, but I did see Tiant pitch while he was a member of the Yankees on Saturday, June 30, 1979 http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA197906300.shtml Tiant went all the way in a 3-2 Yankee victory. Carl Yastrzemski beat Tiant with a HR right down the RF line in the top of the 9th inning. The winning pitcher for the Red Sox that day was Bob Stanley, the same pitcher who threw a two-out wild pitch in the 10th inning of game 6 of the 1986 Series, which allowed Kevin Mitchell to score the tying run. Mookie Wilson was the batter at the time, and after the wild pitch, Mookie ended up squibbing a little roller up the first base line. But I digress lol I think Tiant should be in the HOF, and he has a good chance of being selected by the Veterans Committee in time. With the V.C, it's a matter of really putting your name out there, so that they're thinking about you when they meet.